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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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wow it's the old skeptic zone theme hmm

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I thought I put that into retirement

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about a year back oh well you know how

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it is get them out once in a while give

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them a run through the paddocks through

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the internet and put it back into the

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stable maybe we'll hear that theme once

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again sometime in the distant future

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hello it's Richard Saunders here it's

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episode number 162 of the skeptic zone

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on the twenty-sixth of November 2011

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what a show we have lined up for you

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this week now last weekend the

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Australian skeptics held their annual

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convention last year of course it was

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combined with Cam Australia and that was

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a huge success this year was a bit more

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low-key not being a tam and we had it at

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the Australian Museum just the one day

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convention what a great time great time

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had by all especially especially by

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Maynard who was running around with his

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microphone lots of interviews coming up

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from the Australian skeptics national

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convention over the coming weeks and

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after those bits and pieces from Maynard

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it's the welcome return of reality bites

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with Joanne been amoo and Joanne's going

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to be looking this week she's going to

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be looking at apricot kernels mmm and

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the risk of toxicity and cancer claims

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are all sorts of things like that coming

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up in reality bites and then following

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that of course it's the think tank but

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not not not not at our club down the end

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of the street we go to a mystery

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location yes a mystery location keep

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listening to the skeptic zone and find

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out where we end up thank you for all

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those people by the way writing to me

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who've discovered skepticism for the

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first time by seeing me appear on the

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television show the one the one which

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just wrapped up the final show went to

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where in the past week and if you're

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interested the winner as voted by the

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Great Australian public was Greg Riley

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from Victoria there you are Greg

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winner of the one but thank you to

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everybody who's been writing in to me

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saying well not always nice things but

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lots of nice things actually I'm pleased

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to say mostly nice things and how

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they've gone on to discover things like

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the Australian skeptics and even so far

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as finding other podcasts and even this

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podcast so that's all good i'm very

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pleased to hear about that some more

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interesting and exciting news coming up

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over the the summer break here in

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australia the winter break in the

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northern hemisphere is our friend and

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reporter Maynard looks like he's got a

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new show which will be appearing on ABC

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radio that seems exciting stuff that's

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exciting stuff and with special guests

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maybe even now well me and dr. HC will

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see more news about that pretty soon but

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we're all hoping that that comes off the

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main odd that should be very interesting

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and exciting for people in Australia and

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of course well the internet these days

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people around the world and don't forget

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we still have the the appeal from

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Maynard to get funds for him to come

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with us to Tam 10 in Las Vegas so Rachel

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and I and Joe and Iran can um well not

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run around like like crazy trying to get

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lots of interviews will it may not do

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the running around for you on your

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behalf and on now we have from getting

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all those great interviews and soon soon

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will be auctioning off a poster filled

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with famous skeptical autographs oh boy

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everyone from Joe Nickell to the skeptic

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zone team to Ben radford Steve novella

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Rebecca Watson's on there even may not

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himself and lots of other names i'll be

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telling you about soon look out for that

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coming up that'll be auctioned off there

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are a couple actually but we'll be

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starting off with one all benefits going

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to help us get Maynard over Terrell Las

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Vegas where I think he'll feel right at

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home well I'm going to feel right at

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home I'm going to

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I'm going to run downstairs one of these

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days I'm going to trip if I keep running

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down those stairs i'm going to run

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downstairs i'm going to run to the

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coffee plunger i'm going to have a nice

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cup of obama blend coffee as has bought

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here in down in Sydney in Newtown Obama

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blender coffee oh yes now this is a

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mixture of coffees from Africa and the

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Americas hmm as as you can find it

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campus coffee here and now in Newtown

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I'll do that I'll do that and while I'm

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doing that sipping my coffee I'll let

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here's my not spooky action at the

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well people it's all happening if the

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Australian skeptics national convention

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2011 I can read that off the screen if

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you want to know the difference between

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a apotheosis and a catharsis these are

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the people to ask and I'm up I'm right

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at the back in the naughty seats with

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dr. Christie Wilson now well I look i'm

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we right at the back do you normally

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hang up to up the back of these kind of

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things you can get up to nonsense and

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carry on a bit up the back always I

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always like to be hidden well away from

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from trouble especially something like

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this you know definitely I hate being

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asked questions Oh for example I have no

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idea what the difference between

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apotheosis and catharsis I can't even

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say I Robin oh they're both great woods

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to drop I like introducing little things

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like that into the skeptic zone I

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haven't brought the great cambrian

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explode cambrian explosion conundrum

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here before and I have asked for

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evidence of extraterrestrials on the

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show but sadly we haven't had any yet

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well I've got a good one I always give

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my students is etiological criteria that

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always impresses people at dinner

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parties aetiological criteria it means

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what's the cause of something so what's

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the etiology of depression who's Alf was

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an etiological criteria nice i want to

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drop in it will impress everybody hey as

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your professional i had i not much sleep

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last night because I was really stressed

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I had two coffees this morning and I can

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I feel mildly like a panic attack

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without the pins and needles and stuff

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is that the coffee and the lack of sleep

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absolutely yeah oh how strong was the

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coffee did you have milk sugar in the

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coffee or was it like two really strong

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black coffee well it coffee will do that

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it's a drug yeah yeah was it stimulate

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you and just go to do this absolutely

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and when I was doing my PhD many years

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ago and I lived on coffee because it

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kept me going I was buzzing for days and

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days and days oh yeah don't drink coffee

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if you want to be relaxed and chilled

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but if you want to wake up which is what

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I did yeah but anyway but look it's

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quite a relaxing venue here this is

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really good what are you going to be

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telling people about today uh right well

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um

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I'm a psychology lecturer at chester

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university based in aubrey and my area

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of research is the psychology of belief

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why people believe in weird and

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wonderful things all the psychological

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and in some cases physiological reasons

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why people believe in this stuff and the

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area is actually called animalistic

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psychology and your your your listeners

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will have heard me mention this before

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so it's not the same as parapsychology

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or see parapsychology as everybody

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listening will know is very sort of

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friendly very sympathetic towards the

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idea that sigh exists and

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parapsychologists and basically spend a

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hundred years trying to prove this stuff

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is real anomalistic psychology is

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absolutely skeptic skeptical in nature

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and as I said it's looking at the

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psychological and in some cases

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physiological reasons why some people

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believe in all this weird and wonderful

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stuff so that's that's what I

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investigate that's what I'm doing see

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reckon you could take Michael Shermer in

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a fight Oh take my chauffeur anyway

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frankly was that a bit of a crush on him

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I sure hope he's listening Michael give

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me a call and what is the best example

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of of your work you could give us right

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I know what is the common belief that

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you usually use as an example well okay

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oh that's a good question I think my

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main my main thesis if you like is that

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that we're all actually believers and

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again your listeners will at those of

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those of them that have seen me give

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talks and so on and conventions what

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have you and at tam will know that the

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this is something that I bang on about

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all the time that skeptics tend to think

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that believers are a particular kind of

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species that there's something

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fundamentally wrong with the way they

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think and how they process information

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etc but in reality that's not actually

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the case skeptics are believers as well

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I mean we believe in skepticism we

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believe in science now these are all

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human activities and wherever you have

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humans taking part in any kind of

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activity you're going to have bias

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you're going to have all kinds of

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subjective

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associated with him and so we believe as

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well and my my main thrust my main

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argument if you like is that that we all

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believe in something we all believe in

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something and that there are not

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specific differences between believers

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that it's something that may possibly

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even be innate so we may possibly be

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born with this this need this desire to

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believe in something because if we

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believe we belong and if we belong we

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feel stronger so it might have some kind

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of adaptive purpose maybe that's that's

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my sort of thrust of my andreea the

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moment I can't get too many academics

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they'll believe me then will agree with

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it will agree with me but does the kind

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of thing i'm working on how belief in

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various things can actually be useful it

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can actually help us cope with with life

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so what is the key to having someone

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change their belief if it's shown to be

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wrong how do you because that's pretty

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big that's a cathartic moment if you

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actually have to change your belief in

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helping you if someone really believes

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that and they're not open to the facts

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how do you do that well I'm not sure

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that you can as actually that came up in

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the previous the previous talk and I'm

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not sure that you can it's very hard to

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convince someone who believes in yetis

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or or talking to the dead very hard to

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convince them that it's not actually the

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case and again I've said this many times

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before that it only takes a little bit

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of evidence to convince people of

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anything you know a human self deception

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we're all capable of that we can be

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convinced of pretty much anything with

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the smallest piece of evidence to

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convince someone of the opposite of

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their beliefs I think that's actually

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very difficult to do because we're

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talking about a lot of complex

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psychological variables here too there's

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lots of reasons why people believe in

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stuff

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it's quite complex and to turn someone

273
00:12:11,780 --> 00:12:09,179
away from that is more than just simple

274
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rational thinking you know it's more

275
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than just trying to encourage rational

276
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thinking far more than that now when of

277
00:12:25,189 --> 00:12:19,769
you had a belief that you had to chuck

278
00:12:26,869 --> 00:12:25,199
away come on I'm look earlier for

279
00:12:28,369 --> 00:12:26,879
example I actually used to buy that

280
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magic water that they showed on the

281
00:12:33,129 --> 00:12:31,169
screen earlier in the belief that it

282
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would help my parents arthritis I

283
00:12:38,599 --> 00:12:36,449
actually used to believe that no III

284
00:12:41,900 --> 00:12:38,609
don't have anything like that oh well I

285
00:12:44,409 --> 00:12:41,910
do bizarrely now this is bizarre and I

286
00:12:46,669 --> 00:12:44,419
do actually have and I'm apologized via

287
00:12:49,849 --> 00:12:46,679
listeners to this book about this but I

288
00:12:52,789 --> 00:12:49,859
do actually have a lucky number um well

289
00:12:55,759 --> 00:12:52,799
it's not so much lucky is that it just

290
00:12:57,109 --> 00:12:55,769
follows me around 58 5 they it just

291
00:12:58,759 --> 00:12:57,119
seems to follow me around everywhere

292
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:58,769
that's interesting and how long have you

293
00:13:02,780 --> 00:13:00,480
noticed this number popping up well

294
00:13:05,239 --> 00:13:02,790
since I was born because it's it's

295
00:13:09,289 --> 00:13:05,249
actually my birthday 58 not in the year

296
00:13:11,059 --> 00:13:09,299
58th 5th of august so and it just seems

297
00:13:14,629 --> 00:13:11,069
to find me around Lila addresses

298
00:13:17,269 --> 00:13:14,639
postcodes number plates driver's license

299
00:13:20,449 --> 00:13:17,279
my even my Equity card my Equity card

300
00:13:24,619 --> 00:13:20,459
British Actors Equity card it was 58 58

301
00:13:25,909 --> 00:13:24,629
which was weird weird maybe someone from

302
00:13:29,569 --> 00:13:25,919
another realm is trying to communicate

303
00:13:31,340 --> 00:13:29,579
with you by coincidence quite possibly

304
00:13:32,659 --> 00:13:31,350
yeah no don't worry though I'm not I'm

305
00:13:34,549 --> 00:13:32,669
not there's no chance that I'm going to

306
00:13:38,059 --> 00:13:34,559
be turning to the dark side any time yet

307
00:13:39,769 --> 00:13:38,069
no well good luck with the working to

308
00:13:41,269 --> 00:13:39,779
this crowd they're pretty good crowd but

309
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:41,279
you know something could happen to look

310
00:13:45,650 --> 00:13:43,290
like i always say these things i want

311
00:13:46,850 --> 00:13:45,660
someone to get up there go crazy and get

312
00:13:49,299 --> 00:13:46,860
dragged out do you think that will be

313
00:13:51,499 --> 00:13:49,309
happening tonight I don't think so I

314
00:13:52,850 --> 00:13:51,509
really want to see that in a skeptic

315
00:13:54,319 --> 00:13:52,860
times with someone just suddenly go

316
00:13:56,460 --> 00:13:54,329
we're a little bit and have to get taken

317
00:13:59,060 --> 00:13:56,470
out no I don't think so

318
00:14:01,230 --> 00:13:59,070
no little fart irrational for that I

319
00:14:02,940 --> 00:14:01,240
guess okay we'll go get back to my

320
00:14:07,470 --> 00:14:02,950
catharsis thanks for your time okay guys

321
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:07,480
good good to see you later look we're

322
00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:09,760
out here in the foyer at the Australian

323
00:14:12,570 --> 00:14:11,110
Museum and you could just cut the

324
00:14:14,940 --> 00:14:12,580
tension with with something that you'd

325
00:14:17,250 --> 00:14:14,950
find in the museum shop and who we got

326
00:14:18,990 --> 00:14:17,260
here day hi this is Karen I'm from

327
00:14:20,910 --> 00:14:19,000
Melbourne hey all the way from melbourne

328
00:14:26,580 --> 00:14:20,920
now what did you a motorbike it did you

329
00:14:27,390 --> 00:14:26,590
walk hitchhike the plane yes and now

330
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:27,400
what have you thought of what you've

331
00:14:30,540 --> 00:14:28,930
heard so far it's a really big day here

332
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:30,550
and have you got the right shirt on

333
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:33,010
colorful and skeptical it's almost as

334
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:35,680
loud as yours men ours I had to wear

335
00:14:39,180 --> 00:14:37,450
some loud so people can seek me out to

336
00:14:41,490 --> 00:14:39,190
say some stuff but is there something

337
00:14:42,900 --> 00:14:41,500
you're looking forward to today the the

338
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:42,910
dinner looks good i'm looking forward to

339
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:45,730
the dinner definitely I'm definitely a

340
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:48,010
fan of Laurens lungs so yeah that all

341
00:14:53,220 --> 00:14:51,250
that'll be good hopefully yes so far

342
00:14:55,890 --> 00:14:53,230
today it's still only only the morning

343
00:14:57,510 --> 00:14:55,900
so only a couple of talks so far but and

344
00:14:59,400 --> 00:14:57,520
what is your area what's your

345
00:15:02,880 --> 00:14:59,410
skeptically are you like delving in

346
00:15:06,630 --> 00:15:02,890
mucking around with I really sink my

347
00:15:08,850 --> 00:15:06,640
teeth into religion actually ok so would

348
00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:08,860
you be described as bone hanging I go

349
00:15:16,260 --> 00:15:13,380
word here and anti theist probably

350
00:15:18,330 --> 00:15:16,270
atheist is a definition that that suits

351
00:15:20,340 --> 00:15:18,340
me fine i think but yeah you know

352
00:15:23,820 --> 00:15:20,350
there's so many definitions out there

353
00:15:25,380 --> 00:15:23,830
and that they all pretty much overlap no

354
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:25,390
I can't so you obviously look at if

355
00:15:29,460 --> 00:15:27,730
fewer theologies what's your favourite

356
00:15:31,950 --> 00:15:29,470
God that you like to look at and the

357
00:15:34,410 --> 00:15:31,960
effect on people my favorite what's odd

358
00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:34,420
your favorite which of the gods is your

359
00:15:40,590 --> 00:15:37,510
favorite I I like Thor he's definitely a

360
00:15:42,990 --> 00:15:40,600
favorite God and what an outfit and what

361
00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:43,000
an outfit you know Jesus of course was

362
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:44,710
now two across and Thor carries a hammer

363
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:48,610
you know you figure it out at any time

364
00:15:52,740 --> 00:15:50,890
he could go go to a gay dance party in

365
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:52,750
that outfit at any time Thor just turns

366
00:15:57,050 --> 00:15:55,170
up they go war absolutely

367
00:16:01,490 --> 00:15:57,060
good and what was his mi suppose we may

368
00:16:04,129 --> 00:16:01,500
block from by the way um I don't know it

369
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:04,139
was it made of a song it's also gets it

370
00:16:08,509 --> 00:16:06,690
into ancient astronaut theory as well

371
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:08,519
because you know a God with a mighty

372
00:16:12,530 --> 00:16:10,170
hammer could have been some technology

373
00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:12,540
like misinterpreted by the ancients it

374
00:16:16,370 --> 00:16:14,790
could have been but probably not there's

375
00:16:18,350 --> 00:16:16,380
very little evidence for this I know it

376
00:16:19,699 --> 00:16:18,360
will go well and that's into that

377
00:16:24,530 --> 00:16:19,709
conversation people have a good day

378
00:16:26,509 --> 00:16:24,540
cheers my dad thank you we're here in

379
00:16:28,519 --> 00:16:26,519
the lunchroom who am I talking to my

380
00:16:29,540 --> 00:16:28,529
name is Jason cook and I'm the current

381
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:29,550
president of the Griffith University

382
00:16:35,420 --> 00:16:32,970
skeptics and freethinkers know so so has

383
00:16:37,340 --> 00:16:35,430
it been the conference with the

384
00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:37,350
kilometers today definitely definitely

385
00:16:41,389 --> 00:16:40,320
really informative really fun excellent

386
00:16:44,319 --> 00:16:41,399
conference it's only halfway through

387
00:16:46,519 --> 00:16:44,329
what's been the best bit wow I

388
00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:46,529
particularly liked the last speaker

389
00:16:50,660 --> 00:16:48,750
which was about science journalism and

390
00:16:52,699 --> 00:16:50,670
the decline dog dumbing down of science

391
00:16:54,860 --> 00:16:52,709
journalism i'm currently studying

392
00:16:56,780 --> 00:16:54,870
journalism and we'd like to get into the

393
00:16:59,180 --> 00:16:56,790
science area so when was the last time

394
00:17:00,500 --> 00:16:59,190
you went when you were reading a science

395
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:00,510
journalism

396
00:17:06,260 --> 00:17:02,730
article yeah recently likely this

397
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:06,270
morning it's a daily occurrence oh you

398
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:07,890
see what the facts are wrong or it's

399
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:10,170
poorly written or a little bit of both

400
00:17:15,860 --> 00:17:14,250
there can be facts wrong or sometimes it

401
00:17:18,130 --> 00:17:15,870
just doesn't seem to make sense there'll

402
00:17:21,020 --> 00:17:18,140
be something that our contradiction or

403
00:17:24,439 --> 00:17:21,030
terminology that they've sort of tried

404
00:17:26,540 --> 00:17:24,449
to use the language of science but

405
00:17:29,300 --> 00:17:26,550
without the understanding of it so it's

406
00:17:31,070 --> 00:17:29,310
almost like a poor translation you know

407
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:31,080
when you do a translation program of a

408
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:32,730
language other than English and it comes

409
00:17:37,580 --> 00:17:34,250
back as English and doesn't make sense

410
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:37,590
that do you think it's just mainly they

411
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:40,170
just they're rushing for deadlines or

412
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:42,960
they're just sloppy or sometimes as they

413
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:45,570
own agenda they're pushing it can be all

414
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:47,250
of the above all of the above there's

415
00:17:50,990 --> 00:17:48,810
always a deadline issue which is getting

416
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:51,000
harder and harder and harder and that's

417
00:17:57,530 --> 00:17:54,570
across all journalism but yeah the

418
00:17:58,790 --> 00:17:57,540
general in the general public there

419
00:18:01,070 --> 00:17:58,800
seems to be a problem with science

420
00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:01,080
literacy I say seems to be there's

421
00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:02,400
definitely a problem with science

422
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:05,310
literacy a subsection of that public

423
00:18:10,370 --> 00:18:07,440
will become science journalists it's

424
00:18:12,830 --> 00:18:10,380
just the same problem flowing on it and

425
00:18:14,270 --> 00:18:12,840
what issues you skipped except the good

426
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:14,280
university looking at the moment what

427
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:15,600
about what's ringing your bell up that

428
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:17,610
way at the moment in Queensland we

429
00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:19,410
always have young earth creationists

430
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:21,600
always there's always the

431
00:18:24,730 --> 00:18:23,210
anti-vaccination network

432
00:18:26,409 --> 00:18:24,740
because they're in northern New South

433
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:26,419
Wales they're not that far from where

434
00:18:30,399 --> 00:18:28,490
we're based so we're always keeping an

435
00:18:33,419 --> 00:18:30,409
eye on them and trying to inform people

436
00:18:36,519 --> 00:18:33,429
of what they're doing homeopathy I

437
00:18:40,090 --> 00:18:36,529
regularly take hundreds of homeopathic

438
00:18:42,970 --> 00:18:40,100
sleeping pills no effect whatsoever

439
00:18:45,850 --> 00:18:42,980
except to demonstrate it I did actually

440
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:45,860
see on the dr ratush talk earlier to

441
00:18:50,830 --> 00:18:49,010
stop talking about homeopathic cures for

442
00:18:55,659 --> 00:18:50,840
breast cancer and I noticed actually one

443
00:18:57,940 --> 00:18:55,669
of the herbs there is a fusion th uja it

444
00:19:00,100 --> 00:18:57,950
actually think does have some topical

445
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:00,110
effect if you put it onto a wound I

446
00:19:03,519 --> 00:19:01,730
think it can be helpful in a topic or

447
00:19:05,019 --> 00:19:03,529
form but not when diluted but I thought

448
00:19:07,389 --> 00:19:05,029
hang on that's one heard that actually

449
00:19:10,180 --> 00:19:07,399
does do something if directly applied to

450
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:10,190
something yeah well a lot of curves are

451
00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:12,640
that's where we get medicine from

452
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:15,110
paracetamol is derived from the bark of

453
00:19:21,159 --> 00:19:17,690
a willow tree I think that's where

454
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:21,169
medicine comes from but so it's sort of

455
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:23,450
a problem to reject all natural medicine

456
00:19:28,330 --> 00:19:24,890
or all alternative or complementary

457
00:19:30,370 --> 00:19:28,340
medicines however we need to test them

458
00:19:32,590 --> 00:19:30,380
to see if they work and if we test them

459
00:19:34,659 --> 00:19:32,600
and they don't work then they don't work

460
00:19:36,610 --> 00:19:34,669
unfortunately the moment they're not

461
00:19:39,190 --> 00:19:36,620
being adequately tested or those that

462
00:19:41,139 --> 00:19:39,200
are adequately tested are shown not to

463
00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:41,149
work but they're for sale and the

464
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:42,710
general public doesn't know this sort of

465
00:19:45,490 --> 00:19:43,520
thing

466
00:19:47,020 --> 00:19:45,500
and what would be your dream science

467
00:19:49,450 --> 00:19:47,030
writing job but you like to work for the

468
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:49,460
ABC sign kuna door for commercial paper

469
00:19:54,610 --> 00:19:52,250
definitely the obesity that's sort of my

470
00:19:56,380 --> 00:19:54,620
pinnacle I like to do the Hannibal

471
00:20:00,640 --> 00:19:56,390
Lecter voice in one day all the way to

472
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:00,650
the ABC and it was arresting a the chat

473
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:02,090
about science writing it's good to have

474
00:20:05,650 --> 00:20:04,010
a science department but as I've

475
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:05,660
discovered working at the ABC sometimes

476
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:06,890
if you're not in the science department

477
00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:08,450
and you want to do a science story

478
00:20:11,770 --> 00:20:10,310
there's a little bit of a ghettoization

479
00:20:13,540 --> 00:20:11,780
it's like I know you been not do that

480
00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:13,550
science story the science unit does that

481
00:20:17,050 --> 00:20:15,350
and certainly they would do it in a more

482
00:20:18,700 --> 00:20:17,060
informed way but it does block some

483
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:18,710
lighter science stories getting through

484
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:22,010
yeah that's definitely true and any

485
00:20:26,530 --> 00:20:23,810
science department can make mistakes

486
00:20:28,420 --> 00:20:26,540
over all fallible we all make mistakes

487
00:20:30,970 --> 00:20:28,430
a lot of what we do in the skeptic

488
00:20:33,250 --> 00:20:30,980
community is not just have scientists

489
00:20:34,930 --> 00:20:33,260
for instance a magician might be able to

490
00:20:36,790 --> 00:20:34,940
look at something James Randi is a great

491
00:20:39,220 --> 00:20:36,800
example of this he'll look at something

492
00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:39,230
and he can see where a mistake has been

493
00:20:44,110 --> 00:20:40,910
made that a normal scientist won't be

494
00:20:46,540 --> 00:20:44,120
able to necessarily pick that up there's

495
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:46,550
a lot of psychology involved how we

496
00:20:50,710 --> 00:20:49,250
fooled ourselves how we deceived that's

497
00:20:53,020 --> 00:20:50,720
not necessarily something you're going

498
00:20:55,930 --> 00:20:53,030
to learn by becoming a chemist or a

499
00:20:57,820 --> 00:20:55,940
physicist you learn the methodology of

500
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:57,830
science which is vital and probably the

501
00:21:01,270 --> 00:20:59,840
most important thing however unless you

502
00:21:03,010 --> 00:21:01,280
have critical thinking unless you have

503
00:21:06,820 --> 00:21:03,020
an understanding of how we can be fooled

504
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:06,830
how we can be deceived sometimes being a

505
00:21:11,140 --> 00:21:09,650
scientist isn't enough and what's the

506
00:21:12,730 --> 00:21:11,150
best way we can contact your skeptical

507
00:21:14,830 --> 00:21:12,740
group online you've got you've got like

508
00:21:19,660 --> 00:21:14,840
a great website would flash things that

509
00:21:25,710 --> 00:21:19,670
pop out and things we have a website you

510
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:25,720
can find our blog which is wwg ussf calm

511
00:21:31,060 --> 00:21:28,850
complicated but also if you just google

512
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:31,070
Griffith University skeptics or if you

513
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:34,250
google my name jason j ayso n cooksey

514
00:21:38,770 --> 00:21:36,410
double o ke and you can find our stuff

515
00:21:40,060 --> 00:21:38,780
everywhere all over the internet will

516
00:21:41,950 --> 00:21:40,070
enjoy the rest of the day and good luck

517
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:41,960
with that future job at the ABC science

518
00:22:03,430 --> 00:21:57,580
this is james randi and you're listening

519
00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:03,440
to the skeptic zone hi this is carrie

520
00:22:09,369 --> 00:22:06,320
papi I'm Ross Fletcher okay Ross hey

521
00:22:12,159 --> 00:22:09,379
we're from a podcast called oh no Ross

522
00:22:13,930 --> 00:22:12,169
and Carrie we find out what happens when

523
00:22:16,090 --> 00:22:13,940
you show up and ask questions we've hung

524
00:22:18,430 --> 00:22:16,100
out with the Cabalists the Mormons we've

525
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:18,440
gone and gotten ear candle gone to the

526
00:22:22,810 --> 00:22:21,200
Sikhs we show up so you don't have to so

527
00:22:24,729 --> 00:22:22,820
find out where we're going next we'll

528
00:22:27,339 --> 00:22:24,739
even have special episodes where we have

529
00:22:29,139 --> 00:22:27,349
famous guests like Brian Dalton from mr.

530
00:22:31,450 --> 00:22:29,149
deity you heard that awesome theme music

531
00:22:35,169 --> 00:22:31,460
he wrote that you should come visit us

532
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:35,179
at Oh No podcast.com or facebook.com

533
00:22:42,129 --> 00:22:37,970
slash on rack what the hell's honor a

534
00:22:44,649 --> 00:22:42,139
cross Oh in RAC Oh Oh No Ross and Carrie

535
00:22:53,810 --> 00:22:44,659
that's our show that's a smart come join

536
00:23:08,760 --> 00:22:59,130
is some food for thought it's reality

537
00:23:09,919 --> 00:23:08,770
bites with Joanne Ben amoo Food

538
00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:09,929
Standards Australia New Zealand

539
00:23:14,669 --> 00:23:12,370
reiterated warnings last week about

540
00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:14,679
potentially toxic raw apricot kernels

541
00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:17,110
being sold for consumption online and in

542
00:23:21,779 --> 00:23:19,510
health food stores this move came in

543
00:23:23,730 --> 00:23:21,789
response to chai tree an alternative

544
00:23:25,470 --> 00:23:23,740
health company and Victoria who have

545
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:25,480
reintroduced the kernels to the market

546
00:23:30,990 --> 00:23:27,520
following initially participating in a

547
00:23:33,690 --> 00:23:31,000
recall issued by FSA and Z the company

548
00:23:35,909 --> 00:23:33,700
stated on its website that quote the

549
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:35,919
consumption of raw apricot kernels may

550
00:23:41,159 --> 00:23:38,890
result in adverse reactions raw apricot

551
00:23:43,370 --> 00:23:41,169
kernels contain amygdalin which releases

552
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:43,380
naturally-occurring hydrocyanic acid

553
00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:46,690
this is toxic in excess it is the advice

554
00:23:50,039 --> 00:23:48,130
of Food Standards Australia New Zealand

555
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:50,049
and the Department of Health that may

556
00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:52,450
not be consumed please use responsibly

557
00:23:59,610 --> 00:23:56,080
an archived version of the same website

558
00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:59,620
from 2006 states unfortunately due to

559
00:24:03,690 --> 00:24:01,600
certain regulations imposed by governing

560
00:24:05,250 --> 00:24:03,700
bodies we can't educate you on the

561
00:24:07,710 --> 00:24:05,260
therapeutic properties of apricot

562
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:07,720
kernels however we will happily direct

563
00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:10,330
you to any necessary information they

564
00:24:16,260 --> 00:24:12,370
provide links to websites including cure

565
00:24:18,060 --> 00:24:16,270
zone b-17 and apricot power all of which

566
00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:18,070
promote the use of amygdalin to treat

567
00:24:21,810 --> 00:24:20,110
cancer and claim that the medical

568
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:21,820
establishment has tried to suppress it

569
00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:24,250
an initial warning had been issued

570
00:24:29,220 --> 00:24:27,039
earlier in November when FSA and Zed

571
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:29,230
placed a recall on kernels sold by chai

572
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:31,450
tree after a Queensland man became

573
00:24:37,159 --> 00:24:34,090
unwell the tested product was found to

574
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:37,169
contain high levels of hydrocyanic acid

575
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:40,690
hydrocyanic acid is cyanide and yet the

576
00:24:43,980 --> 00:24:42,490
kernels are touted by some alternative

577
00:24:47,580 --> 00:24:43,990
health proponents as a treatment for

578
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:47,590
cancer toxicity is increased by oral

579
00:24:52,110 --> 00:24:49,570
consumption due to the way our bodies

580
00:24:54,149 --> 00:24:52,120
metabolize amygdalin which is also found

581
00:24:56,789 --> 00:24:54,159
in other fruit pets and seeds such as

582
00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:56,799
almonds and cherries the bitter form of

583
00:25:00,600 --> 00:24:58,330
the pits is popular with those seeking

584
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:00,610
alternative treatments as they contain

585
00:25:05,340 --> 00:25:02,890
higher levels of amygdalin

586
00:25:07,710 --> 00:25:05,350
speaking to the Age newspaper professor

587
00:25:09,900 --> 00:25:07,720
in over the cancer council stated that

588
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:09,910
many people think that if it's derived

589
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:11,650
from a fruit that it can't be too

590
00:25:18,060 --> 00:25:15,570
harmful but in this case it can be

591
00:25:20,430 --> 00:25:18,070
people are known to consume up to 50

592
00:25:23,310 --> 00:25:20,440
pits per day but even a small number may

593
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:23,320
be harmful speaking to hospitality

594
00:25:28,020 --> 00:25:25,690
magazine Alan Koontz of the New South

595
00:25:30,420 --> 00:25:28,030
Wales food authorities stated at the

596
00:25:32,370 --> 00:25:30,430
level of hydrocyanic acid detected in

597
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:32,380
this product only a small number of

598
00:25:35,790 --> 00:25:34,000
apricot kernels would need to be

599
00:25:38,250 --> 00:25:35,800
consumed to reach potentially unsafe

600
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:38,260
levels according to publish toxicity

601
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:41,290
data health claims surrounding the

602
00:25:45,900 --> 00:25:43,360
substance date back to Russia in the

603
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:45,910
mid-1800s gaining popularity in the

604
00:25:52,620 --> 00:25:49,330
1950s when dr. Ernst eat crab senior and

605
00:25:54,870 --> 00:25:52,630
his son earns t cremes jr. promoted the

606
00:25:58,470 --> 00:25:54,880
use of a synthesized form of amygdalin

607
00:26:00,150 --> 00:25:58,480
to treat cancer crab senior and son had

608
00:26:02,550 --> 00:26:00,160
a long history of promoting various

609
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:02,560
substances as cancer cures and on

610
00:26:07,530 --> 00:26:04,240
notable figures in the history of cancer

611
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:07,540
quackery krebs claimed that cancerous

612
00:26:11,910 --> 00:26:09,970
cells are rich in an enzyme which causes

613
00:26:14,850 --> 00:26:11,920
release of cyanide from amygdalin

614
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:14,860
killing the cancerous tissue healthy

615
00:26:20,340 --> 00:26:17,290
tissue is spared by another enzyme which

616
00:26:23,370 --> 00:26:20,350
deactivates the cyanide when authorities

617
00:26:27,060 --> 00:26:23,380
tried to banish krebs rebranded a medlin

618
00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:27,070
as vitamin b17 or layer trial claiming a

619
00:26:32,580 --> 00:26:29,910
deficiency of the vitamin led to cancer

620
00:26:34,860 --> 00:26:32,590
like other pseudo scientific theories

621
00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:34,870
the claimed mechanism of action has

622
00:26:39,930 --> 00:26:36,430
never been shown to have scientific

623
00:26:42,180 --> 00:26:39,940
plausibility a 2006 review from the

624
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:42,190
Cochrane Collaboration concluded that

625
00:26:45,810 --> 00:26:43,840
claims of benefit for cancer patients

626
00:26:49,290 --> 00:26:45,820
are not supported by data from

627
00:26:52,830 --> 00:26:49,300
controlled clinical trials a 1982 trial

628
00:26:55,140 --> 00:26:52,840
of 175 patients found that in orbit one

629
00:26:57,150 --> 00:26:55,150
patient Jimmer's increased in size

630
00:26:59,250 --> 00:26:57,160
following treatment with authors

631
00:27:01,340 --> 00:26:59,260
concluding that it is a toxic drug that

632
00:27:03,690 --> 00:27:01,350
is not effective as a cancer treatment

633
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:03,700
there have been numerous cases of

634
00:27:07,410 --> 00:27:05,200
patients seeking treatment with low

635
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:07,420
trial most notably the late Steve

636
00:27:11,610 --> 00:27:09,850
McQueen he had traveled to Mexico

637
00:27:13,860 --> 00:27:11,620
seeking alternative treatments for a

638
00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:13,870
mesothelioma diagnosis he received in

639
00:27:17,620 --> 00:27:15,110
1979

640
00:27:20,260 --> 00:27:17,630
he reportedly underwent a punishing

641
00:27:23,650 --> 00:27:20,270
regime including up to 50 daily vitamins

642
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:23,660
coffee enemas and lateral mcqueen died

643
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:26,210
shortly after claiming recovery having

644
00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:27,650
failed to respond to any of these

645
00:27:33,130 --> 00:27:30,950
treatments another harrowing case was

646
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:33,140
that of two-year-old Chad Green whose

647
00:27:37,570 --> 00:27:35,210
parents fled to Mexico against court

648
00:27:39,820 --> 00:27:37,580
orders seeking alternative treatment for

649
00:27:42,850 --> 00:27:39,830
his leukemia which had responded well to

650
00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:42,860
chemotherapy Chad's death suggested

651
00:27:47,980 --> 00:27:45,049
cyanide poisoning but the quack watch

652
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:47,990
website notes that dr. Contreras a noted

653
00:27:52,990 --> 00:27:50,480
proponent of laetrile therapy claimed he

654
00:27:55,180 --> 00:27:53,000
died of leukemia and was a good example

655
00:27:59,380 --> 00:27:55,190
of the effectiveness of laetrile because

656
00:28:01,360 --> 00:27:59,390
he had died of pleasant death in 1975 a

657
00:28:03,340 --> 00:28:01,370
class action lawsuit attempted to force

658
00:28:05,980 --> 00:28:03,350
the FDA to allow terminal cancer

659
00:28:09,460 --> 00:28:05,990
patients to obtain lair trial the case

660
00:28:11,049 --> 00:28:09,470
was initially successful but in 1979 the

661
00:28:13,180 --> 00:28:11,059
US Supreme Court rejected the argument

662
00:28:16,990 --> 00:28:13,190
the terminal patients be exempted from

663
00:28:19,690 --> 00:28:17,000
FDA regulation while it has been banned

664
00:28:22,090 --> 00:28:19,700
for sale in many countries hospitals in

665
00:28:24,190 --> 00:28:22,100
Mexico such as the Oasis of Hope cancer

666
00:28:26,620 --> 00:28:24,200
hospital continue to offer it as a

667
00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:26,630
treatment and many websites offering

668
00:28:32,169 --> 00:28:29,440
alternative cancer cures promote its use

669
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:32,179
Cancer Council are calling for a ban on

670
00:28:45,610 --> 00:28:43,490
the Colonel's now on Belfast FM we turn

671
00:28:47,770 --> 00:28:45,620
to the personal ads easing going and

672
00:28:49,990 --> 00:28:47,780
confident skeptic seeks other critical

673
00:28:52,330 --> 00:28:50,000
thinkers for fun laughter and good times

674
00:28:54,730 --> 00:28:52,340
must be willing to apply logic liberally

675
00:28:56,740 --> 00:28:54,740
and a good listener expect something new

676
00:28:58,360 --> 00:28:56,750
and interesting every month come and

677
00:29:00,250 --> 00:28:58,370
meet me in Belfast in Northern Ireland

678
00:29:03,669 --> 00:29:00,260
if this sounds like you check out my

679
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:03,679
profile on bail for skeptics calm music

680
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:11,120
by Kevin MacLeod join us now for

681
00:29:21,620 --> 00:29:13,290
drinking skeptically

682
00:29:23,330 --> 00:29:21,630
in the think tank of the cut being made

683
00:29:25,610 --> 00:29:23,340
the cuts themselves in Mali it was the

684
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:25,620
thought of that Richard is recording us

685
00:29:32,210 --> 00:29:28,890
now hello hello hello Iran hello dr.

686
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:32,220
rachy and welcome to this interesting

687
00:29:35,630 --> 00:29:33,840
thing tank we have for you this week

688
00:29:37,310 --> 00:29:35,640
we're not coming to you from our

689
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:37,320
favorite club down the end of the street

690
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:39,930
indeed we're coming to you from Iran sir

691
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:44,610
gives learn drew come office sort of

692
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:46,530
utility so they deal until we finish

693
00:29:50,510 --> 00:29:48,480
renovating the this is the office as

694
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:50,520
well as the lounger so we've decided to

695
00:29:54,110 --> 00:29:52,320
come to a completely different part of

696
00:29:57,410 --> 00:29:54,120
Sydney Town thanks thanks to a bunch of

697
00:29:58,850 --> 00:29:57,420
Nana's and my numpty RSL we were going

698
00:30:00,620 --> 00:29:58,860
to be in another club but it didn't

699
00:30:04,010 --> 00:30:00,630
quite work out so here we are

700
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:04,020
nevertheless and I must say that the the

701
00:30:07,970 --> 00:30:05,520
biggest thing that's happened and as

702
00:30:09,980 --> 00:30:07,980
listeners know earlier early in the show

703
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:09,990
was our little convention and what a

704
00:30:14,570 --> 00:30:12,450
great success that was very very good I

705
00:30:16,730 --> 00:30:14,580
think we all enjoyed taking part of that

706
00:30:19,820 --> 00:30:16,740
and the dinner was great good fun good

707
00:30:22,910 --> 00:30:19,830
fun all around and Thank You Iran for

708
00:30:24,950 --> 00:30:22,920
doing the lion's share of the work to

709
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:24,960
get that together thank you it was

710
00:30:29,810 --> 00:30:26,490
really good say the highlight for me was

711
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:29,820
done Peter Daugherty's talk it was just

712
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:32,730
absolutely fantastic he's brilliant is

713
00:30:37,550 --> 00:30:35,370
yeah it was just so inspiring I like yes

714
00:30:41,330 --> 00:30:37,560
that was very good and i also like Peter

715
00:30:43,130 --> 00:30:41,340
Hatfield yes potholder 54 only 54 in

716
00:30:45,950 --> 00:30:43,140
that was great to see him and dr. Reggie

717
00:30:50,150 --> 00:30:45,960
of course gave a great talk i was i have

718
00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:50,160
to say i like the paddle most well

719
00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:52,710
that's I wonder why I up a little bit

720
00:30:57,740 --> 00:30:54,510
sika nice probably sounded like um

721
00:30:59,630 --> 00:30:57,750
Sylvia Browne at the moment it's now

722
00:31:03,350 --> 00:30:59,640
hopping all as we speak rachel has got a

723
00:31:04,850 --> 00:31:03,360
little full of worms look yeah it's a

724
00:31:08,650 --> 00:31:04,860
little worm was just crawling on your

725
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:08,660
shoulder oh I let it out don't know me

726
00:31:14,870 --> 00:31:12,570
now that the panel that we would it goes

727
00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:14,880
out the door the it was like one of

728
00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:16,320
these little caterpillar

729
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:19,110
each way yeah probably would have got

730
00:31:23,269 --> 00:31:20,690
around to my feel like I just

731
00:31:27,230 --> 00:31:23,279
participated in a in a worm edition of

732
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:27,240
free will the panel we were discussing

733
00:31:32,090 --> 00:31:29,370
just now from our national convention

734
00:31:35,060 --> 00:31:32,100
was sort of a health panel it was about

735
00:31:37,690 --> 00:31:35,070
the title was regulating alternative

736
00:31:41,810 --> 00:31:37,700
medicine or regular regulating medicine

737
00:31:44,389 --> 00:31:41,820
and the the moderator was Christopher's

738
00:31:46,249 --> 00:31:44,399
in from choice good news so it was very

739
00:31:48,529 --> 00:31:46,259
I mean he's done it a lot he's done that

740
00:31:50,389 --> 00:31:48,539
a few times before but it was very good

741
00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:50,399
he was very and I should point out that

742
00:31:56,330 --> 00:31:52,799
the choice has just given an honorary

743
00:31:58,789 --> 00:31:56,340
shonky oras or dishonorable mention in

744
00:32:00,409 --> 00:31:58,799
the shang keys to the TGA which is good

745
00:32:02,690 --> 00:32:00,419
because one of the members of the panel

746
00:32:05,330 --> 00:32:02,700
was drawn hammer doctor dr. Owen Hammett

747
00:32:08,299 --> 00:32:05,340
who is the national head of the TGA

748
00:32:12,110 --> 00:32:08,309
which was I thought it a nice nice cool

749
00:32:14,570 --> 00:32:12,120
for us we also had Marcus Betsy who is

750
00:32:18,259 --> 00:32:14,580
the head of compliance unit with the a

751
00:32:21,259 --> 00:32:18,269
Triple C and ken harvey which which has

752
00:32:24,769 --> 00:32:21,269
this thorn in their side serial

753
00:32:26,139 --> 00:32:24,779
complainer and I continued to do that so

754
00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:26,149
the tunnel and I thought it was a great

755
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:28,710
just to remind listeners of course the

756
00:32:34,249 --> 00:32:32,250
TGA is the therapeutics Goods

757
00:32:37,159 --> 00:32:34,259
Administration it's the equivalent of

758
00:32:39,619 --> 00:32:37,169
the FDA in this in the state so i guess

759
00:32:45,289 --> 00:32:39,629
the NHS not really the UHS but yeah

760
00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:45,299
what's it it's more o.o actually a 19

761
00:32:51,980 --> 00:32:48,799
the UK it's something wrong mhm a

762
00:32:56,269 --> 00:32:51,990
medicine and health regulatory mrs I

763
00:32:58,909 --> 00:32:56,279
know that society get something back

764
00:33:02,810 --> 00:32:58,919
mhra oh sorry I have some emails with

765
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:02,820
Alan Anderson oh yeah engine it but the

766
00:33:07,159 --> 00:33:05,250
a Triple C stands for the Australian

767
00:33:09,799 --> 00:33:07,169
Competition and Consumer Commission

768
00:33:13,279 --> 00:33:09,809
which is sort of like in America's sort

769
00:33:16,519 --> 00:33:13,289
of like the FTC is this is this how many

770
00:33:18,919 --> 00:33:16,529
acronyms can return to a think tank but

771
00:33:20,140 --> 00:33:18,929
but the point is like every minute he

772
00:33:23,910 --> 00:33:20,150
lays

773
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:23,920
you're single the a trip will see is the

774
00:33:29,020 --> 00:33:26,090
organization in Australia that actually

775
00:33:31,630 --> 00:33:29,030
does stuff and has teeth yes and the TTA

776
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:31,640
and is the paper tiger as can be seen

777
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:33,730
but I thought it was so interesting that

778
00:33:39,970 --> 00:33:36,290
Ken gave the first presentation because

779
00:33:42,070 --> 00:33:39,980
the the thought the the panel was such

780
00:33:44,410 --> 00:33:42,080
that each person gave 10 minutes and

781
00:33:47,290 --> 00:33:44,420
then there was a discussion and Ken

782
00:33:49,660 --> 00:33:47,300
started off just slamming the TGA and

783
00:33:52,420 --> 00:33:49,670
actually put up a picture of an origami

784
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:52,430
tiger I don't think name next to it

785
00:33:58,270 --> 00:33:56,690
paper tiger today and I that Rowan

786
00:34:00,910 --> 00:33:58,280
Hammett didn't look particularly

787
00:34:03,820 --> 00:34:00,920
comfortable for the hour and a half he

788
00:34:05,590 --> 00:34:03,830
SAT there no I mean good item for

789
00:34:07,060 --> 00:34:05,600
turning up one point I did feel a little

790
00:34:09,550 --> 00:34:07,070
bit sorry for him but then he started

791
00:34:11,470 --> 00:34:09,560
spouting logical fallacies about but

792
00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:11,480
people die of paracetamol overdoses

793
00:34:18,130 --> 00:34:15,230
every year so leave Camelot he was he I

794
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:18,140
should be snapping basis of what he was

795
00:34:23,409 --> 00:34:21,050
saying and at some level I could kind of

796
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:23,419
get what you saying but it doesn't

797
00:34:28,870 --> 00:34:26,240
actually to me justify the situation the

798
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:28,880
argument seems to be that cam is seen as

799
00:34:34,270 --> 00:34:31,610
being low risk and therefore the Wayne

800
00:34:36,909 --> 00:34:34,280
TGA handles it is to say it's low risk

801
00:34:38,740 --> 00:34:36,919
and therefore at some level we can were

802
00:34:42,399 --> 00:34:38,750
comfortable with this situation of

803
00:34:46,990 --> 00:34:42,409
low-risk products not having as much

804
00:34:49,510 --> 00:34:47,000
scrutiny and and oversight compared to

805
00:34:50,770 --> 00:34:49,520
high-risk things like oh look over here

806
00:34:52,690 --> 00:34:50,780
medications caused all these problems

807
00:34:54,070 --> 00:34:52,700
and people die from medications every

808
00:34:55,780 --> 00:34:54,080
year and therefore we have to focus more

809
00:34:57,450 --> 00:34:55,790
over there and that just doesn't cut it

810
00:35:00,670 --> 00:34:57,460
for me as far as I'm concerned it's

811
00:35:02,620 --> 00:35:00,680
still there there are still significant

812
00:35:04,420 --> 00:35:02,630
risks well he was changing the subject

813
00:35:07,630 --> 00:35:04,430
but he was also he was also making

814
00:35:09,250 --> 00:35:07,640
excuses because the thing is they're not

815
00:35:11,860 --> 00:35:09,260
doing the other one the other part as

816
00:35:14,130 --> 00:35:11,870
well which which we know as of the last

817
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:14,140
couple days there's a big issue with

818
00:35:21,610 --> 00:35:18,770
with the hip replacements so and we know

819
00:35:23,470 --> 00:35:21,620
there's been issues with nurofen with

820
00:35:24,850 --> 00:35:23,480
the advertising for neuro so that it's

821
00:35:27,670 --> 00:35:24,860
not like they're doing such a good job

822
00:35:30,010 --> 00:35:27,680
on the on the high-risk medicine side

823
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:30,020
either and I think part of the problem

824
00:35:34,990 --> 00:35:32,240
is with with dr. Hamid is

825
00:35:38,020 --> 00:35:35,000
he does find excuses and we saw that

826
00:35:39,550 --> 00:35:38,030
recently with a the issue with the audit

827
00:35:41,859 --> 00:35:39,560
so they ran it the way it works just

828
00:35:46,270 --> 00:35:41,869
very generally and correct me if I'm

829
00:35:48,220 --> 00:35:46,280
wrong eh the that the aust that we have

830
00:35:50,980 --> 00:35:48,230
two types of registration or post our

831
00:35:52,750 --> 00:35:50,990
registration registered products there

832
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:52,760
are the ones that are like normal

833
00:35:57,220 --> 00:35:54,560
medications basically and they have to

834
00:35:59,350 --> 00:35:57,230
go through all the double-blind testing

835
00:36:01,180 --> 00:35:59,360
and phase 1 2 3 and all those things in

836
00:36:02,890 --> 00:36:01,190
and with monitoring continuing through

837
00:36:06,370 --> 00:36:02,900
phase 4 and in that those are the

838
00:36:08,530 --> 00:36:06,380
registered products the listed products

839
00:36:11,050 --> 00:36:08,540
we had which have an austell number are

840
00:36:13,170 --> 00:36:11,060
simply declared by their sponsors that

841
00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:13,180
they have they include certain

842
00:36:19,690 --> 00:36:16,480
ingredients that are part of a list of

843
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:19,700
Priya Priya pre-approved ingredients at

844
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:22,130
a low risk and they say they make the

845
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:23,690
claims they actually write this free

846
00:36:27,700 --> 00:36:25,850
free text that they can put in that

847
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:27,710
explains what the product does but

848
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:29,210
nobody reading hold them to account in

849
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:30,890
terms o and they say we have the

850
00:36:34,359 --> 00:36:32,930
evidence yeah and I can do it all online

851
00:36:35,890 --> 00:36:34,369
but basically it could do it all online

852
00:36:37,420 --> 00:36:35,900
you pay a hundred and ninety-eight

853
00:36:39,310 --> 00:36:37,430
dollars or something and you get you get

854
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:39,320
the number that doesn't thought section

855
00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:42,050
oh okay was it no way rather than

856
00:36:46,930 --> 00:36:44,000
something well that makes a huge

857
00:36:51,190 --> 00:36:46,940
difference yes clinical trials are about

858
00:36:53,740 --> 00:36:51,200
a segment Mary money okay so yeah I

859
00:36:55,930 --> 00:36:53,750
remember Pfizer's budget a clinical

860
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:55,940
research budget i think is 6.2 billion

861
00:37:00,220 --> 00:36:57,650
dollars a year or something i just saw

862
00:37:03,190 --> 00:37:00,230
something really question so anyway the

863
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:03,200
fam the thing is the thing is they what

864
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:05,570
what they do the listed product is that

865
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:07,010
they're supposed to audit a certain

866
00:37:11,290 --> 00:37:09,770
number every year and in recent audit

867
00:37:14,260 --> 00:37:11,300
they found ninety percent were

868
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:14,270
non-compliant now some of them were

869
00:37:19,750 --> 00:37:17,090
non-compliant on trivial matters like

870
00:37:22,270 --> 00:37:19,760
the size of certain things on the on the

871
00:37:24,810 --> 00:37:22,280
laser device yes yeah so some of them

872
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:24,820
were or something's missing and but but

873
00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:27,770
the point is that first of all ninety

874
00:37:30,820 --> 00:37:28,880
percent of them were found to be

875
00:37:32,530 --> 00:37:30,830
non-compliant but within those ninety

876
00:37:34,900 --> 00:37:32,540
percent the vast majority were also

877
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:34,910
non-compliant on many other way many

878
00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:36,560
other things some of which are quite

879
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:38,960
serious but when row and Hammett was

880
00:37:43,450 --> 00:37:40,970
interviewed on the radio about it he

881
00:37:44,970 --> 00:37:43,460
said oh most of them were trivial most

882
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:44,980
of them were things like labeling and

883
00:37:49,830 --> 00:37:47,050
like that which is patently not true i

884
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:49,840
mean the numbers are out there and it's

885
00:37:56,430 --> 00:37:53,650
just not true that that the majority are

886
00:37:58,260 --> 00:37:56,440
minor things the majority I actually can

887
00:38:00,630 --> 00:37:58,270
I can I make a further point on that too

888
00:38:04,859 --> 00:38:00,640
in terms of obfuscation in with respect

889
00:38:07,050 --> 00:38:04,869
to dr. Hammett that audit only covered a

890
00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:07,060
very small percentage of the 10,000

891
00:38:11,070 --> 00:38:09,280
products that are listed so in the very

892
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:11,080
small amount that they audited ninety

893
00:38:15,420 --> 00:38:13,330
percent didn't comply and the tj's

894
00:38:17,940 --> 00:38:15,430
excuse after that two ones well we only

895
00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:17,950
actually covered a small number so if we

896
00:38:25,290 --> 00:38:20,560
actually audited more it probably would

897
00:38:27,060 --> 00:38:25,300
you know revert to the mean no no if you

898
00:38:29,070 --> 00:38:27,070
started off with ninety percent wrong

899
00:38:31,620 --> 00:38:29,080
it's unlikely you're going to go back to

900
00:38:33,270 --> 00:38:31,630
ten percent you know if you increase the

901
00:38:34,859 --> 00:38:33,280
number of products that you audit it's

902
00:38:37,500 --> 00:38:34,869
just me that's that's the kind of

903
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:37,510
obfuscation and rhetoric that he was

904
00:38:42,510 --> 00:38:40,510
using on Saturday he was he was yes just

905
00:38:44,580 --> 00:38:42,520
to get out of every question and every

906
00:38:46,170 --> 00:38:44,590
excuse in the world a lot of angle a lot

907
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:46,180
of people making the comment ities

908
00:38:50,790 --> 00:38:48,130
sounded like a typical politician I

909
00:38:52,260 --> 00:38:50,800
don't know I know whether you'd agree

910
00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:52,270
with me but the thing that gets me is

911
00:38:59,370 --> 00:38:54,910
let's let's assume that all of these

912
00:39:01,080 --> 00:38:59,380
products are actually low risk that they

913
00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:01,090
really you know there is nothing that

914
00:39:05,820 --> 00:39:03,510
could cause any harm and that's all fine

915
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:05,830
the fact remains and what still bothers

916
00:39:10,170 --> 00:39:07,810
me is that I'm not comfortable with the

917
00:39:13,230 --> 00:39:10,180
fact that the TGA would have an attitude

918
00:39:17,099 --> 00:39:13,240
that low risk in terms of physical harm

919
00:39:19,140 --> 00:39:17,109
which isn't obviously important means

920
00:39:21,060 --> 00:39:19,150
therefore it's okay with consumers who

921
00:39:23,940 --> 00:39:21,070
maybe two nite and you don't know better

922
00:39:26,370 --> 00:39:23,950
being ripped off that's not but I think

923
00:39:31,170 --> 00:39:26,380
actually that's not the TGA the problem

924
00:39:33,390 --> 00:39:31,180
is the law the TGA should enforce what

925
00:39:35,430 --> 00:39:33,400
the law says okay there is a problem

926
00:39:37,500 --> 00:39:35,440
with the law yeah it has this whole the

927
00:39:39,420 --> 00:39:37,510
whole listed thing is just ridiculous

928
00:39:41,550 --> 00:39:39,430
because it it gives them a an air

929
00:39:43,590 --> 00:39:41,560
there's an air of being endorsed and

930
00:39:44,940 --> 00:39:43,600
superior like approved by really to say

931
00:39:46,830 --> 00:39:44,950
approved like that it's actually a

932
00:39:48,810 --> 00:39:46,840
ridiculous if anybody knows how the

933
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:48,820
system works knows that it hasn't been

934
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:50,800
approved or these products haven't been

935
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:52,570
approved so I think that's a problem

936
00:39:55,470 --> 00:39:53,530
with the law but the problem is that

937
00:39:56,780 --> 00:39:55,480
within the law there's things they can

938
00:40:00,980 --> 00:39:56,790
do to make things better

939
00:40:03,410 --> 00:40:00,990
huh and they don't know the topic of Ed

940
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:03,420
candles came up or as an example to him

941
00:40:08,810 --> 00:40:06,450
and his attitude was all well if we if

942
00:40:10,970 --> 00:40:08,820
we d list one of them then they just

943
00:40:14,660 --> 00:40:10,980
alter the claims and listed against

944
00:40:16,370 --> 00:40:14,670
that's like but and he kept on saying as

945
00:40:20,540 --> 00:40:16,380
if this would make us feel better and I

946
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:20,550
mean seriously he was sitting facing 120

947
00:40:26,540 --> 00:40:24,210
skeptics important some sorry 140 some

948
00:40:28,220 --> 00:40:26,550
of whom have read the legislation some

949
00:40:31,100 --> 00:40:28,230
of whom have read the National Audit and

950
00:40:32,990 --> 00:40:31,110
not quite well and saying ah but you

951
00:40:35,450 --> 00:40:33,000
know you guys are really awesome because

952
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:35,460
you need to keep complaining and then we

953
00:40:40,850 --> 00:40:37,920
can do stuff about it and it's like no

954
00:40:43,340 --> 00:40:40,860
no no no no that's not how it works you

955
00:40:45,410 --> 00:40:43,350
should be proactive about this not and

956
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:45,420
what does he expect us all to go harder

957
00:40:49,130 --> 00:40:47,010
that's okay then because we're all

958
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:49,140
really good and we met cries I mean we

959
00:40:52,130 --> 00:40:50,400
have to talk to you thank you for doing

960
00:40:53,810 --> 00:40:52,140
my job boy yeah and we know where those

961
00:40:57,110 --> 00:40:53,820
complaints go into a dirty big black

962
00:40:59,570 --> 00:40:57,120
hole that we and we don't I mean this

963
00:41:02,720 --> 00:40:59,580
this is I just drives me insane but you

964
00:41:04,190 --> 00:41:02,730
know I blogged about this a couple of

965
00:41:07,580 --> 00:41:04,200
days ago where there was a Freedom of

966
00:41:11,180 --> 00:41:07,590
Information Act passed granted on a

967
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:11,190
piece of data from the TGA which was

968
00:41:15,380 --> 00:41:12,810
basically a list of sponsors that had

969
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:15,390
breached the legislation and somebody

970
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:17,250
said look I need to know which ones have

971
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:19,170
breached and why and they released this

972
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:22,170
document and I swear to god it is it's

973
00:41:28,340 --> 00:41:26,010
beautiful it is like maybe you can put

974
00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:28,350
it on its blog right yeah it's all it's

975
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:30,240
on my blog it's the current place the

976
00:41:36,410 --> 00:41:33,330
skeptics pooh pooh pooh yeah it's got

977
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:36,420
the the name of that it says I RTG TGA

978
00:41:40,490 --> 00:41:38,880
and then it's got a fax mark at the

979
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:40,500
bottom and the middle is a black

980
00:41:46,340 --> 00:41:43,530
rectangle that's the revised things

981
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:46,350
being redacted filled in it's been

982
00:41:50,630 --> 00:41:48,090
redacted to the point where you can see

983
00:41:53,470 --> 00:41:50,640
the frame of the page yes yeah and

984
00:41:56,570 --> 00:41:53,480
that's their transparency it's just

985
00:41:59,060 --> 00:41:56,580
absolutely hopeless Joe your highlighter

986
00:42:01,640 --> 00:41:59,070
has been busy oh it's been so busy I

987
00:42:04,340 --> 00:42:01,650
know I had also fun with my highlighters

988
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:04,350
I can tell from here only one color any

989
00:42:07,250 --> 00:42:05,760
one color though and I don't know I've

990
00:42:08,420 --> 00:42:07,260
got to really interesting stories too

991
00:42:09,420 --> 00:42:08,430
sweet so I'm just trying to decide which

992
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:09,430
one

993
00:42:15,030 --> 00:42:11,680
well the most interesting are they both

994
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:15,040
are they both are um how about I start

995
00:42:20,849 --> 00:42:18,160
with them with this one I'm you might

996
00:42:22,890 --> 00:42:20,859
have seen as some on twitter if you read

997
00:42:24,780 --> 00:42:22,900
the guide in if you follow george

998
00:42:26,370 --> 00:42:24,790
monbiot pronounce his name correctly

999
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:26,380
he's a journalist who writes for The

1000
00:42:31,620 --> 00:42:28,930
Guardian and he wrote a really

1001
00:42:34,950 --> 00:42:31,630
interesting piece in The Guardian a

1002
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:34,960
couple of days ago it's really really

1003
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:38,410
worrying actually and a gentleman by the

1004
00:42:43,799 --> 00:42:42,130
name of dr. Christopher Busby who is a

1005
00:42:46,559 --> 00:42:43,809
visiting professor at the University of

1006
00:42:48,870 --> 00:42:46,569
Ulster and also is the former science

1007
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:48,880
and technology spokesman for the Green

1008
00:42:55,650 --> 00:42:53,200
Party in the UK is it is basically

1009
00:42:58,520 --> 00:42:55,660
promoting anti radiation pills to people

1010
00:43:01,589 --> 00:42:58,530
in Japan who were affected by Fukushima

1011
00:43:05,819 --> 00:43:01,599
now what's what's particularly

1012
00:43:07,710 --> 00:43:05,829
concerning about all this is that um you

1013
00:43:09,900 --> 00:43:07,720
should really really recommend the two

1014
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:09,910
that you read the two articles that he

1015
00:43:14,039 --> 00:43:11,770
wrote because some that they're just

1016
00:43:16,890 --> 00:43:14,049
it's really good journalism very very

1017
00:43:19,650 --> 00:43:16,900
interesting but he's selling a range of

1018
00:43:23,099 --> 00:43:19,660
mineral supplements urine tests and food

1019
00:43:27,740 --> 00:43:23,109
tests to the Japanese population all at

1020
00:43:31,730 --> 00:43:27,750
rather exorbitant prices so it must be

1021
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:31,740
runs a company called busby laboratories

1022
00:43:35,970 --> 00:43:34,450
which are providing these tests and he's

1023
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:35,980
promoting them through an organization

1024
00:43:41,010 --> 00:43:37,690
called the Christopher Busby foundation

1025
00:43:43,319 --> 00:43:41,020
for children of Fukushima and both of

1026
00:43:44,730 --> 00:43:43,329
the both the pills and the tests are

1027
00:43:47,430 --> 00:43:44,740
being sold through a website in

1028
00:43:53,130 --> 00:43:47,440
California called for you dash detox

1029
00:43:54,299 --> 00:43:53,140
calm now what's particularly uh about

1030
00:43:55,740 --> 00:43:54,309
this whole thing aside from the fact

1031
00:43:58,109 --> 00:43:55,750
that there is absolutely no evidence

1032
00:44:00,809 --> 00:43:58,119
what he's doing is that he's also making

1033
00:44:03,059 --> 00:44:00,819
some really really ugly claims about

1034
00:44:06,890 --> 00:44:03,069
what's going on in Japan but what's

1035
00:44:09,930 --> 00:44:06,900
being done by Japanese government he is

1036
00:44:12,089 --> 00:44:09,940
he is what he warns in these videos

1037
00:44:14,039 --> 00:44:12,099
which he's put online of a public health

1038
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:14,049
catastrophe and Japan caused by the

1039
00:44:18,210 --> 00:44:16,450
Fukushima disaster and he claims that

1040
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:18,220
radioactive cesium will destroy the

1041
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:19,930
heart muscles of Japanese children which

1042
00:44:23,079 --> 00:44:20,930
there is absolutely

1043
00:44:24,910 --> 00:44:23,089
no evidence for just the heart muscles

1044
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:24,920
because I see different muscles in Italy

1045
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:27,650
he alleges that and I'm quoting directly

1046
00:44:32,049 --> 00:44:29,450
from the article here he alleges that

1047
00:44:33,430 --> 00:44:32,059
the jack that the sorry he alleges that

1048
00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:33,440
the Japanese government is tracking

1049
00:44:37,809 --> 00:44:35,510
radioactive material from the Fukushima

1050
00:44:39,849 --> 00:44:37,819
site all over Japan in order to increase

1051
00:44:41,349 --> 00:44:39,859
the cancer rate in the whole of Japan so

1052
00:44:43,990 --> 00:44:41,359
that there will be no control group of

1053
00:44:45,460 --> 00:44:44,000
children unaffected by the disaster in

1054
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:45,470
order to help the Japanese government

1055
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:47,450
prevent potential lawsuits from people

1056
00:44:50,589 --> 00:44:48,650
whose health may have been affected by

1057
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:50,599
the village this is the part where we

1058
00:44:59,020 --> 00:44:56,930
move away from detox pills into was it

1059
00:45:03,549 --> 00:44:59,030
the lithium what do you what did you

1060
00:45:05,650 --> 00:45:03,559
people who are lithium yeah

1061
00:45:09,339 --> 00:45:05,660
antipsychotics yeah I me psychotics I

1062
00:45:12,700 --> 00:45:09,349
mean clearly this is really my job I

1063
00:45:14,410 --> 00:45:12,710
know um look this this guy's got along

1064
00:45:16,450 --> 00:45:14,420
the history of being associated with the

1065
00:45:18,190 --> 00:45:16,460
Green Party in the UK and in fact this

1066
00:45:20,890 --> 00:45:18,200
was the comment made by I'm George

1067
00:45:22,690 --> 00:45:20,900
Monbiot which is that the the claims of

1068
00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:22,700
this man are doing serious damage to the

1069
00:45:29,109 --> 00:45:26,510
Green Party by association apparently he

1070
00:45:30,579 --> 00:45:29,119
he had a history in the past of claiming

1071
00:45:33,059 --> 00:45:30,589
that there was a leukemia cluster

1072
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:33,069
amongst children living in Wales

1073
00:45:37,210 --> 00:45:35,450
interestingly his and what he said here

1074
00:45:38,319 --> 00:45:37,220
is that his findings were self were self

1075
00:45:40,599 --> 00:45:38,329
published and released by the

1076
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:40,609
environmental consultancy and research

1077
00:45:44,650 --> 00:45:43,010
organization that he runs so they've

1078
00:45:47,230 --> 00:45:44,660
never been subject to peer review and

1079
00:45:50,890 --> 00:45:47,240
that when his claims were scrutinized by

1080
00:45:54,490 --> 00:45:50,900
by scientists this is very interesting

1081
00:45:56,559 --> 00:45:54,500
here young his statistical mistakes were

1082
00:45:58,390 --> 00:45:56,569
so astonishing that he countered the

1083
00:46:01,480 --> 00:45:58,400
overall the kamir incidents for Wales

1084
00:46:03,250 --> 00:46:01,490
twice just mixed up the figures from

1085
00:46:05,470 --> 00:46:03,260
urban areas with those from small rural

1086
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:05,480
areas claimed there were 10 cases of

1087
00:46:08,859 --> 00:46:07,130
leukemia and young children in this

1088
00:46:11,470 --> 00:46:08,869
particular area when in reality there

1089
00:46:13,089 --> 00:46:11,480
was just one case and and as he says

1090
00:46:14,890 --> 00:46:13,099
here worst of all they found clear

1091
00:46:16,599 --> 00:46:14,900
evidence of data dredging which renders

1092
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:16,609
all subsequent statistical inference

1093
00:46:22,780 --> 00:46:20,210
spurious there's no luxury how would you

1094
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:22,790
describe it agent rotated Reggie it's

1095
00:46:28,450 --> 00:46:24,410
like data my own which is like cherry

1096
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:28,460
picking yeah okay yeah um and at

1097
00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:32,330
and and so I mean this man is just

1098
00:46:36,010 --> 00:46:34,250
making these claims but in addition to

1099
00:46:37,450 --> 00:46:36,020
that he's selling visa making sure

1100
00:46:40,930 --> 00:46:37,460
though she's basically making [\h__\h] up

1101
00:46:42,970 --> 00:46:40,940
but he's charging people a phenomenal

1102
00:46:44,620 --> 00:46:42,980
amount of money he's charging thousands

1103
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:44,630
and thousands of dollars for these tests

1104
00:46:48,849 --> 00:46:46,490
I mean he's charging like four urines

1105
00:46:50,890 --> 00:46:48,859
your stories oh so many times before

1106
00:46:52,810 --> 00:46:50,900
it's just another I mean it's just one

1107
00:46:54,790 --> 00:46:52,820
on me and you know what the you know

1108
00:46:56,980 --> 00:46:54,800
what the amazing thing is that we hear

1109
00:47:00,190 --> 00:46:56,990
this story time in the game and did you

1110
00:47:04,089 --> 00:47:00,200
notice how often it happens this is when

1111
00:47:06,130 --> 00:47:04,099
when he did some terrible tragedy yeah

1112
00:47:09,250 --> 00:47:06,140
and these people are preying on human

1113
00:47:11,339 --> 00:47:09,260
misery yeah it's just absolutely hauling

1114
00:47:14,770 --> 00:47:11,349
what but what I found particularly

1115
00:47:16,210 --> 00:47:14,780
important easier what I found

1116
00:47:19,690 --> 00:47:16,220
particularly important but about what

1117
00:47:21,460 --> 00:47:19,700
was being said was that he touches on

1118
00:47:23,260 --> 00:47:21,470
the fact that the young the green

1119
00:47:26,260 --> 00:47:23,270
movement needs to really distance

1120
00:47:27,220 --> 00:47:26,270
themselves from people like this and I

1121
00:47:30,579 --> 00:47:27,230
mean you know we've looked at things

1122
00:47:32,710 --> 00:47:30,589
like the issues of GM food and you know

1123
00:47:33,970 --> 00:47:32,720
I think you know a lot of people really

1124
00:47:35,740 --> 00:47:33,980
want to be able to support the

1125
00:47:37,270 --> 00:47:35,750
environmental movement in terms of

1126
00:47:41,490 --> 00:47:37,280
dealing with climate change and so on

1127
00:47:43,630 --> 00:47:41,500
but when we see the sort of the

1128
00:47:46,510 --> 00:47:43,640
environmental side supporting really

1129
00:47:49,270 --> 00:47:46,520
anti science stop I was no accident very

1130
00:47:51,910 --> 00:47:49,280
very hard to get on board and and I

1131
00:47:53,740 --> 00:47:51,920
really really applaud this article they

1132
00:47:56,170 --> 00:47:53,750
don't worry birth canal this is on the

1133
00:47:58,510 --> 00:47:56,180
Guardian website there's two articles to

1134
00:48:01,720 --> 00:47:58,520
articles by George Monbiot enum and he

1135
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:01,730
said he's on Twitter definitely

1136
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:02,930
definitely worth a lot what is your

1137
00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:04,970
other highlighted marketing so my other

1138
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:07,310
highlighted masterpiece okay silver

1139
00:48:12,010 --> 00:48:09,290
before you go hello ms okay if you want

1140
00:48:14,550 --> 00:48:12,020
to hear Joe squee all right I'm just

1141
00:48:17,220 --> 00:48:14,560
gonna move over

1142
00:48:20,500 --> 00:48:17,230
folks let me just explain what happened

1143
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:20,510
from behind his back Iran produced a

1144
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:25,210
whole big container of of sharpie

1145
00:48:30,610 --> 00:48:28,250
highlighters and all differences sharpie

1146
00:48:33,940 --> 00:48:30,620
holla yes yeah I'm taking the microphone

1147
00:48:36,010 --> 00:48:33,950
far away because Joe is over excited she

1148
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:36,020
is now holding up the container of a

1149
00:48:40,780 --> 00:48:37,850
sharpie highlighters there must be like

1150
00:48:43,870 --> 00:48:40,790
20 their greens and blues and yellows

1151
00:48:49,030 --> 00:48:43,880
and reds and rachel is about to take a

1152
00:48:53,140 --> 00:48:49,040
picture of her now I expect the

1153
00:48:54,670 --> 00:48:53,150
listeners who on tweet Twitter a few

1154
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:54,680
days ago would have seen the picture

1155
00:49:04,360 --> 00:48:57,370
which Rachel's just about to take now

1156
00:49:07,300 --> 00:49:04,370
and there we go now yes please tweet it

1157
00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:07,310
now so I listeners case this is all time

1158
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:11,510
distortion Joe so right back to more

1159
00:49:16,900 --> 00:49:13,730
interesting stuff so the only thing I to

1160
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:16,910
talk about with some anyone who if you

1161
00:49:23,050 --> 00:49:18,890
listen to the I think it was the science

1162
00:49:24,730 --> 00:49:23,060
on top podcast from the weeks ago I was

1163
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:24,740
on there couple of wesco talking about

1164
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:27,410
BPA or bisphenol which people have

1165
00:49:30,730 --> 00:49:28,970
probably heard mentioned in the media

1166
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:30,740
and I'm absolutely fascinated by this

1167
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:34,010
topic because i think it's just just

1168
00:49:40,660 --> 00:49:37,970
such an astounding example of poor poor

1169
00:49:44,500 --> 00:49:40,670
science reporting and absolute media

1170
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:44,510
fail on the the particular

1171
00:49:49,540 --> 00:49:46,730
a study that we talked about a few weeks

1172
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:49,550
ago on science on top was a fantastic

1173
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:53,410
study which came out which has been

1174
00:49:59,170 --> 00:49:55,490
which was really seen as being an

1175
00:50:02,100 --> 00:49:59,180
absolutely you know almost well almost

1176
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:02,110
flawless piece of signs which

1177
00:50:07,660 --> 00:50:05,570
demonstrated the safety of BPA now if

1178
00:50:09,010 --> 00:50:07,670
you've been following this all in the

1179
00:50:11,620 --> 00:50:09,020
media you'd know that there's a lot of

1180
00:50:13,870 --> 00:50:11,630
concern about this phenol it's a it's a

1181
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:13,880
chemical that's found in the lining of

1182
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:17,810
cans and a lot of plastic water bottles

1183
00:50:21,670 --> 00:50:20,450
and all sorts of things and for a quite

1184
00:50:23,890 --> 00:50:21,680
a number of years now there's been a lot

1185
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:23,900
of concern over where the BPA is toxic

1186
00:50:30,460 --> 00:50:26,330
to humans a particular concern is that

1187
00:50:32,830 --> 00:50:30,470
it's it has hormone effects like

1188
00:50:34,990 --> 00:50:32,840
estrogen and that there's the potential

1189
00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:35,000
for it to cause cancer and other health

1190
00:50:39,070 --> 00:50:37,760
problems so there's been a huge number

1191
00:50:41,170 --> 00:50:39,080
of studies over the last few years and

1192
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:41,180
it's it's really quite an interesting

1193
00:50:45,580 --> 00:50:44,330
scientific controversy what's particular

1194
00:50:46,930 --> 00:50:45,590
interesting is that depending on which

1195
00:50:49,270 --> 00:50:46,940
part of the world you're in that either

1196
00:50:51,610 --> 00:50:49,280
is or isn't the controversy so if you go

1197
00:50:53,710 --> 00:50:51,620
over to the US or Canada there's a

1198
00:50:57,100 --> 00:50:53,720
really really strong push to ban BPA

1199
00:50:59,320 --> 00:50:57,110
whereas if you go over to the EU there

1200
00:51:01,060 --> 00:50:59,330
is a feeling that the science has

1201
00:51:03,100 --> 00:51:01,070
absolutely almost you know conclusively

1202
00:51:06,130 --> 00:51:03,110
shown that BPA is safe and there's

1203
00:51:08,890 --> 00:51:06,140
nothing to worry about so what um what

1204
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:08,900
got me all jumping up and down today was

1205
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:12,650
studies just come out in the journal of

1206
00:51:20,770 --> 00:51:15,730
the american association or jammer which

1207
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:20,780
looked at the levels of BPA in in

1208
00:51:26,380 --> 00:51:23,330
people's urine after eating soup canned

1209
00:51:28,300 --> 00:51:26,390
soup all right and all of the news

1210
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:28,310
there's a whole lot of hysteria because

1211
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:30,410
what they've said is the urine of people

1212
00:51:34,570 --> 00:51:32,210
who consume canned soup can contain

1213
00:51:36,130 --> 00:51:34,580
surprisingly high levels of BPA or

1214
00:51:37,450 --> 00:51:36,140
hormone-disrupting compound linked to

1215
00:51:39,550 --> 00:51:37,460
health problems including heart disease

1216
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:39,560
diabetes and obesity so it's a

1217
00:51:44,860 --> 00:51:41,770
conclusion right at the start yes so

1218
00:51:48,610 --> 00:51:44,870
panic panic panic is high levels of BPA

1219
00:51:50,590 --> 00:51:48,620
in urine and the conclusion is therefore

1220
00:51:52,660 --> 00:51:50,600
beef we know BPA's toxic in this high

1221
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:52,670
level year and so run for the hills that

1222
00:51:56,599 --> 00:51:54,690
and by the way I must think

1223
00:51:59,480 --> 00:51:56,609
ed brown from science on top of pointing

1224
00:52:01,339 --> 00:51:59,490
this out to me today drew the problem

1225
00:52:04,010 --> 00:52:01,349
with this is that they're really really

1226
00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:04,020
good research into BPA the the the this

1227
00:52:10,940 --> 00:52:07,680
the method logically sound science has

1228
00:52:13,609 --> 00:52:10,950
shown that BPA is rapidly excreted from

1229
00:52:16,010 --> 00:52:13,619
the body and metabolized and extend

1230
00:52:17,809 --> 00:52:16,020
excreted very very quickly and that it's

1231
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:17,819
not surprising that you see high levels

1232
00:52:23,420 --> 00:52:20,250
of BPA in the urine after people consume

1233
00:52:26,540 --> 00:52:23,430
it because it could reiterated its going

1234
00:52:28,730 --> 00:52:26,550
away and there was a fantastic study by

1235
00:52:31,670 --> 00:52:28,740
a tea Gordon which was published in the

1236
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:31,680
Journal of toxicological Sciences about

1237
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:35,010
six months ago and and it was it really

1238
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:38,130
conclusively showed that you know BPA

1239
00:52:44,300 --> 00:52:40,770
does not stick around at the body long

1240
00:52:46,819 --> 00:52:44,310
enough to cause problems it's unlikely

1241
00:52:49,550 --> 00:52:46,829
to be found at high levels in human

1242
00:52:51,319 --> 00:52:49,560
tissues and therefore it's not something

1243
00:52:52,609 --> 00:52:51,329
to worry about and they've been a number

1244
00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:52,619
of really really good studies that are

1245
00:52:59,210 --> 00:52:55,680
showing this that aside if you go online

1246
00:53:01,670 --> 00:52:59,220
you will find not a beep about the good

1247
00:53:04,609 --> 00:53:01,680
studies what you will find is a lot of

1248
00:53:07,970 --> 00:53:04,619
media hysteria about studies which are

1249
00:53:11,359 --> 00:53:07,980
pretty poorly conducted not well

1250
00:53:15,559 --> 00:53:11,369
controlled really not actually telling

1251
00:53:19,540 --> 00:53:15,569
us anything of value except creating

1252
00:53:22,700 --> 00:53:19,550
fear so it could be a storm in a soup in

1253
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:22,710
absolutely so um you know this is

1254
00:53:26,569 --> 00:53:24,810
getting a lot of attention online at the

1255
00:53:28,250 --> 00:53:26,579
moment and I just think it's really

1256
00:53:30,589 --> 00:53:28,260
worth keeping an eye on it because that

1257
00:53:32,809 --> 00:53:30,599
the thing is that there's measures being

1258
00:53:36,319 --> 00:53:32,819
taken by a lot of governments to ban BPA

1259
00:53:37,609 --> 00:53:36,329
stay and as I mentioned previously you

1260
00:53:40,700 --> 00:53:37,619
know Steve novella blogged about this a

1261
00:53:43,250 --> 00:53:40,710
couple of years ago they you know at the

1262
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:43,260
time there was more to talk about here

1263
00:53:46,670 --> 00:53:44,730
it was a controversy that was worth

1264
00:53:48,980 --> 00:53:46,680
looking at really now the science seems

1265
00:53:50,450 --> 00:53:48,990
to be you know quite settled there is

1266
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:50,460
nothing to be worried about but still

1267
00:53:54,740 --> 00:53:52,890
you know what we're looking at banning a

1268
00:53:57,170 --> 00:53:54,750
substance unnecessarily we're creating

1269
00:54:00,529 --> 00:53:57,180
fear particularly among amongst parents

1270
00:54:04,519 --> 00:54:00,539
and worried about the kids being exposed

1271
00:54:06,949 --> 00:54:04,529
and I think it's uh yeah well your

1272
00:54:10,009 --> 00:54:06,959
highlighter has been used to very good

1273
00:54:12,199 --> 00:54:10,019
use their effect and well I think we'll

1274
00:54:14,989 --> 00:54:12,209
wrap up this a thing then pretty soon

1275
00:54:17,569 --> 00:54:14,999
but let's switch over to Ron for a

1276
00:54:19,219 --> 00:54:17,579
second because at the top of the thing

1277
00:54:20,839 --> 00:54:19,229
think we did mention our convention

1278
00:54:22,969 --> 00:54:20,849
which was a great success and we of

1279
00:54:25,370 --> 00:54:22,979
course as we do every year now

1280
00:54:28,849 --> 00:54:25,380
convention we give out awards cheers and

1281
00:54:31,219 --> 00:54:28,859
jeers they might say yes so the the

1282
00:54:34,929 --> 00:54:31,229
first award we gave the bent spoon award

1283
00:54:38,150 --> 00:54:34,939
which we awarded to Melbourne University

1284
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:38,160
RMIT and the reason we gave them that

1285
00:54:42,769 --> 00:54:41,130
award which is an annual award we always

1286
00:54:43,939 --> 00:54:42,779
have a problem with the with that award

1287
00:54:46,429 --> 00:54:43,949
because there's always so many good

1288
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:46,439
candidates unfortunately was because

1289
00:54:51,319 --> 00:54:49,410
they have a fundamentalist chiropractic

1290
00:54:54,620 --> 00:54:51,329
education program and again I hesitate

1291
00:54:56,870 --> 00:54:54,630
to say education in this context but I

1292
00:54:58,400 --> 00:54:56,880
think that's what they call it and not

1293
00:55:01,130 --> 00:54:58,410
only do they support fundamentalist

1294
00:55:04,729 --> 00:55:01,140
chiropractors they also have an

1295
00:55:07,370 --> 00:55:04,739
on-campus pediatric chiropractic clinic

1296
00:55:09,529 --> 00:55:07,380
so I think the well deserving of the

1297
00:55:11,419 --> 00:55:09,539
bent spoon award so in addition to the

1298
00:55:12,739 --> 00:55:11,429
bench man award we also mentioned we

1299
00:55:14,479 --> 00:55:12,749
gave a dishonorable mention to

1300
00:55:16,909 --> 00:55:14,489
Blackmore's into the pharmacy Guild of

1301
00:55:19,159 --> 00:55:16,919
Australia for the the deal that they

1302
00:55:21,649 --> 00:55:19,169
concocted to try to sell unproven

1303
00:55:25,429 --> 00:55:21,659
medication or well I'm not so medication

1304
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:25,439
and unproven stuff sure to people who

1305
00:55:31,399 --> 00:55:28,650
come to pharmacies to buy specific real

1306
00:55:33,829 --> 00:55:31,409
real real you know proven proven from a

1307
00:55:35,509 --> 00:55:33,839
suitor goals yeah and but with the

1308
00:55:37,819 --> 00:55:35,519
reason we didn't give it to them and

1309
00:55:42,339 --> 00:55:37,829
eventually was because it caused them so

1310
00:55:45,769 --> 00:55:42,349
much harm that we we thought of actually

1311
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:45,779
given him you know positive mention for

1312
00:55:49,759 --> 00:55:47,130
causing so much harm to that kind of

1313
00:55:51,469 --> 00:55:49,769
education we said we were we were

1314
00:55:54,649 --> 00:55:51,479
jokingly saying that we will give them

1315
00:55:57,979 --> 00:55:54,659
give Christine holgate the Blackmore CEO

1316
00:56:00,499 --> 00:55:57,989
the the if there was it the coke and

1317
00:56:03,649 --> 00:56:00,509
fries award coca because she said that

1318
00:56:06,739 --> 00:56:03,659
this is these these additives are like

1319
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:06,749
the coke and fries of pharmacies so that

1320
00:56:10,249 --> 00:56:08,130
that didn't go down very well with the

1321
00:56:13,009 --> 00:56:10,259
public and they was it was very good so

1322
00:56:13,770 --> 00:56:13,019
that that's the bent spoon award we then

1323
00:56:17,790 --> 00:56:13,780
awarded

1324
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:17,800
several nice nice ones the first one was

1325
00:56:22,980 --> 00:56:20,010
we gave special recognition to

1326
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:22,990
journalists TV journalist Frank bungalow

1327
00:56:29,730 --> 00:56:27,010
who's you rage and Richard you know very

1328
00:56:32,220 --> 00:56:29,740
well you've worked with him he's a TV

1329
00:56:34,020 --> 00:56:32,230
journalist with Channel Seven's today

1330
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:34,030
tonight in Adelaide we don't usually see

1331
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:36,610
very good scientific stuff from from

1332
00:56:40,770 --> 00:56:38,770
today tonight but Frank has done several

1333
00:56:43,350 --> 00:56:40,780
the Adelaide they're a different group

1334
00:56:45,180 --> 00:56:43,360
from the Sydney group yes nevertheless

1335
00:56:47,490 --> 00:56:45,190
oh yeah he's still good you know it's

1336
00:56:49,140 --> 00:56:47,500
still today tonight is generally however

1337
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:49,150
he put it it's tabloid television and

1338
00:56:54,900 --> 00:56:52,570
you don't expect accuracy in science but

1339
00:56:56,580 --> 00:56:54,910
Frank has done good work fantastic work

1340
00:57:00,330 --> 00:56:56,590
and he's done several really good

1341
00:57:02,630 --> 00:57:00,340
stories and any continues to follow up

1342
00:57:04,890 --> 00:57:02,640
what we do in The Skeptical movement and

1343
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:04,900
and there's mine absolutely there's more

1344
00:57:09,150 --> 00:57:06,250
to comment that something I mentioned

1345
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:09,160
when I when I gave him the award so he

1346
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:10,690
wasn't there unfortunately but we will

1347
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:12,370
send him the the certificate of

1348
00:57:18,630 --> 00:57:15,850
appreciation then skeptic of the year

1349
00:57:20,850 --> 00:57:18,640
was awarded to Loretta Marin who was

1350
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:20,860
already been awarded generally the jelly

1351
00:57:24,810 --> 00:57:22,690
bean lady she's already been awarded in

1352
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:24,820
the past in 2007 but the thing is

1353
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:27,130
Loretta could easily win every year we

1354
00:57:31,590 --> 00:57:28,570
just give it to others from time to time

1355
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:31,600
because it's not fair see she's so

1356
00:57:38,150 --> 00:57:34,770
active and she's just so brilliant and

1357
00:57:40,410 --> 00:57:38,160
specifically this was for her word

1358
00:57:42,330 --> 00:57:40,420
against chiropractors this year and

1359
00:57:44,340 --> 00:57:42,340
especially against fundamentalist

1360
00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:44,350
chiropractors then again mentioned them

1361
00:57:48,420 --> 00:57:45,760
they're the ones who still believe in

1362
00:57:50,190 --> 00:57:48,430
the vertebral subluxation complex as the

1363
00:57:51,630 --> 00:57:50,200
cause of some of them believe its most

1364
00:57:54,450 --> 00:57:51,640
disease and others believe it's all

1365
00:57:56,430 --> 00:57:54,460
disease but whatever it is it's it's a

1366
00:57:59,400 --> 00:57:56,440
mythical it's a mythical syndrome i mean

1367
00:58:01,100 --> 00:57:59,410
this mythical symptom or in digital

1368
00:58:03,300 --> 00:58:01,110
condition or whatever you can call it

1369
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:03,310
because its mythical it's difficult to

1370
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:05,890
define but some people still believe in

1371
00:58:08,670 --> 00:58:07,210
and they're they're quite prominent

1372
00:58:11,550 --> 00:58:08,680
within the chiropractic movement and

1373
00:58:15,300 --> 00:58:11,560
she's really taking them to task and and

1374
00:58:17,850 --> 00:58:15,310
will continue to do so i'm sure we also

1375
00:58:19,500 --> 00:58:17,860
have the full net award for the

1376
00:58:23,749 --> 00:58:19,510
promotion of Reason which we call the

1377
00:58:27,799 --> 00:58:23,759
Fred and that was that's for the the

1378
00:58:29,719 --> 00:58:27,809
the way we describe it is that it's

1379
00:58:31,459 --> 00:58:29,729
awarded to acknowledge as a member of

1380
00:58:33,649 --> 00:58:31,469
the public or a public figure was made a

1381
00:58:35,389 --> 00:58:33,659
significant contribution to educating or

1382
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:35,399
informing the public regarding issues of

1383
00:58:39,829 --> 00:58:38,130
science and reason and in addition to a

1384
00:58:41,749 --> 00:58:39,839
certificate we also give a thousand

1385
00:58:44,989 --> 00:58:41,759
dollars to the person when's this and

1386
00:58:48,199 --> 00:58:44,999
this year's winner was hands down ken

1387
00:58:50,509 --> 00:58:48,209
harvey dr. ken harvey our friend for his

1388
00:58:52,459 --> 00:58:50,519
work against census thing but but really

1389
00:58:55,489 --> 00:58:52,469
you know it's it's sort of a an

1390
00:59:00,979 --> 00:58:55,499
accumulation of his work of many years

1391
00:59:03,289 --> 00:59:00,989
of taking quacks to to task and and also

1392
00:59:06,019 --> 00:59:03,299
in being a thorn in the side of the the

1393
00:59:07,489 --> 00:59:06,029
TGA in particular they people see they

1394
00:59:09,319 --> 00:59:07,499
think it was the we were what we were

1395
00:59:12,379 --> 00:59:09,329
giving the awards just before the panel

1396
00:59:13,519 --> 00:59:12,389
and i said i said DNA he's been a thorn

1397
00:59:15,139 --> 00:59:13,529
in their side and i'm sure he will

1398
00:59:17,719 --> 00:59:15,149
continue be a thorn in his side in about

1399
00:59:20,870 --> 00:59:17,729
seven more minutes so so that was very

1400
00:59:24,589 --> 00:59:20,880
good and then we surprised Barry

1401
00:59:26,089 --> 00:59:24,599
Williams I called him on on the stage he

1402
00:59:28,609 --> 00:59:26,099
didn't know anything was coming he

1403
00:59:30,829 --> 00:59:28,619
wasn't even going to attendance and of

1404
00:59:32,839 --> 00:59:30,839
course Barry's been behind the

1405
00:59:34,519 --> 00:59:32,849
Australian skeptics and Australia the

1406
00:59:36,319 --> 00:59:34,529
skeptical movement in Australia for for

1407
00:59:39,199 --> 00:59:36,329
the past basically for the portly entire

1408
00:59:43,999 --> 00:59:39,209
yetis did duration this is very early

1409
00:59:46,099 --> 00:59:44,009
eighties yes and uh and he and he is you

1410
00:59:47,659 --> 00:59:46,109
know he's been a very important person

1411
00:59:49,909 --> 00:59:47,669
in skeptical movement in Australia and

1412
00:59:51,139 --> 00:59:49,919
he was going to miss this convention for

1413
00:59:54,439 --> 00:59:51,149
the first time after attending every

1414
00:59:55,819 --> 00:59:54,449
single one of the first 26 so I asked

1415
00:59:57,799 --> 00:59:55,829
him to say a few words about the bench

1416
00:59:59,509 --> 00:59:57,809
spoon award so he thought he was going

1417
01:00:01,819 --> 00:59:59,519
to say if you were to buy the bed spin

1418
01:00:02,959 --> 01:00:01,829
award and I said no we actually don't

1419
01:00:04,669 --> 01:00:02,969
want to hear what you have to say about

1420
01:00:06,919 --> 01:00:04,679
Vince pin award he was kind of shocked

1421
01:00:09,649 --> 01:00:06,929
see a different thing and we gave him a

1422
01:00:11,269 --> 01:00:09,659
Life Achievement Award and because he's

1423
01:00:14,059 --> 01:00:11,279
a in addition to the certificate because

1424
01:00:16,099 --> 01:00:14,069
he's a is a cricket fanatic i think is

1425
01:00:20,149 --> 01:00:16,109
he good way of saying is we gave him a

1426
01:00:22,129 --> 01:00:20,159
replica ashes urn with the words to bury

1427
01:00:24,379 --> 01:00:22,139
for to Barry Williams for a lifetime of

1428
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:24,389
skepticism and he was really touched by

1429
01:00:28,249 --> 01:00:26,130
anyone was really nice lovely little

1430
01:00:31,249 --> 01:00:28,259
little gesture I thought yes he was he

1431
01:00:33,379 --> 01:00:31,259
was was absolutely always a highlight of

1432
01:00:35,470 --> 01:00:33,389
the convention the awards every year

1433
01:00:37,390 --> 01:00:35,480
always wait can't wait

1434
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:37,400
who wins the bent spoon always great fun

1435
01:00:42,490 --> 01:00:40,010
it's been great fun to have a think tank

1436
01:00:44,740 --> 01:00:42,500
away from our favorite Club no bus

1437
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:44,750
announcements you might have wanted to

1438
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:46,450
make a bus and that's now it's all right

1439
01:00:51,540 --> 01:00:49,490
listeners can imagine a bus announcement

1440
01:00:54,910 --> 01:00:51,550
but I'm sure the next thing tank will be

1441
01:00:57,370 --> 01:00:54,920
back at some busy noisy club with bus

1442
01:01:00,550 --> 01:00:57,380
announcements or some such thing dr.

1443
01:01:02,050 --> 01:01:00,560
Reggie you better get home and jump back

1444
01:01:04,630 --> 01:01:02,060
into bed with your chicken soup and

1445
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:04,640
measles yeah i just also want to add

1446
01:01:08,740 --> 01:01:06,770
that I think Lawrence lean did a great

1447
01:01:11,380 --> 01:01:08,750
job at the convention child oh yeah big

1448
01:01:13,810 --> 01:01:11,390
shout out to him here I like yeah he did

1449
01:01:16,420 --> 01:01:13,820
he did the the dinner talk it was fat

1450
01:01:18,099 --> 01:01:16,430
yeah quite a few people came people

1451
01:01:19,330 --> 01:01:18,109
obviously not everybody attended the

1452
01:01:20,740 --> 01:01:19,340
dinner not everybody attended the

1453
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:20,750
conference it didn't attended the dinner

1454
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:23,090
but the water but they were close to a

1455
01:01:28,270 --> 01:01:26,330
hundred people at the dinner and and I

1456
01:01:31,150 --> 01:01:28,280
think everyone said this was their

1457
01:01:33,790 --> 01:01:31,160
favorite part of the day and he was he

1458
01:01:35,740 --> 01:01:33,800
was quick fun Joe thank you very much

1459
01:01:37,540 --> 01:01:35,750
thank you Richard I have fun with your

1460
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:37,550
highlighter yes my highlighters are

1461
01:01:41,530 --> 01:01:39,290
wonderful I'll take them on the plane

1462
01:01:45,190 --> 01:01:41,540
with me I've already tweeted I'm off to

1463
01:01:46,690 --> 01:01:45,200
find Wu in Peru whoo in Peru and Iran

1464
01:01:48,970 --> 01:01:46,700
thank you for having us in your land

1465
01:01:51,550 --> 01:01:48,980
room you must welcome we have no glasses

1466
01:02:20,380 --> 01:01:51,560
to cling but until our next think tank

1467
01:02:25,579 --> 01:02:23,390
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1468
01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:25,589
zone and thank you to all those people

1469
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:29,609
who've been far too kind congratulating

1470
01:02:33,890 --> 01:02:32,490
me personally for the the state of power

1471
01:02:37,579 --> 01:02:33,900
balance in the United States because

1472
01:02:39,710 --> 01:02:37,589
they've gone into bankruptcy it's very

1473
01:02:42,650 --> 01:02:39,720
kind of you i only did a little little

1474
01:02:45,559 --> 01:02:42,660
bit a little part in exposing the scam

1475
01:02:48,289 --> 01:02:45,569
that is power balance but i will see

1476
01:02:51,109 --> 01:02:48,299
what's happening but it's occasionally

1477
01:02:53,990 --> 01:02:51,119
it's good to see some some success it

1478
01:02:56,950 --> 01:02:54,000
really is and I'm not wearing my power

1479
01:03:00,319 --> 01:02:56,960
balance i'm wearing my placebo band ho

1480
01:03:03,799 --> 01:03:00,329
don't forget pasiba ban the real thing

1481
01:03:07,549 --> 01:03:03,809
or the real fake thing the real thing

1482
01:03:09,799 --> 01:03:07,559
thing anyway you know what i mean well

1483
01:03:11,990 --> 01:03:09,809
after that interesting show I need to

1484
01:03:13,849 --> 01:03:12,000
lie down for at least a week at least

1485
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:13,859
week and then I'll get up again and I'll

1486
01:03:21,109 --> 01:03:16,490
try to produce another skipping zone

1487
01:03:23,690 --> 01:03:21,119
which will be 162 until then this is

1488
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:23,700
Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney

1489
01:03:33,289 --> 01:03:29,010
Australia you've been listening to the

1490
01:03:36,530 --> 01:03:33,299
skeptic zone visit our website at wwc a

1491
01:03:40,539 --> 01:03:36,540
petting zoo TV for comments contacts and

1492
01:03:40,549 --> 01:03:45,540
skin